Only one day before your post I wrote, "[...] but not as overspiced nor too woody as some champagnes I had lately."
When I had the Carré Frères for the first time a bit over a year ago, I said to my friends that "I don't understand this champagne". I definitely will try again as soon as I get the chance.
Cheers
the punk who wore white socks when they were ridiculed - so about 40y before they became fashionable (again?)
For me I tend to find what I think of as 'woody' as being a product of small barrels, maybe second/third fill, maybe fairly open with some oxidative development, and not especailly white burgundy-like. But that's probably semantics. The Carré wines for me are more protectively made, even reductive, with more of the floral/sweet-spice profile of young oak - more in the modern-still-Chardonnay aromatic range. I think they have the 'front' really interesting now. If they can heighten the back end then it will go up another notch....
I tend to think of (new) oak as a tool for transforming tannins. The greener the tannins, the more transformative the effect of the new oak (within reason of course. Aromatics and fruit flavours are also necessary). In the old days, say pre 1980, when many European vigneron struggled to have ripe fruit AND ripe tannins, new oak barrels went a long way towards compensating for the green tannins. But barrels were, and are still, expensive so they were reserved for their best wines.
Robert Mondavi while trying to emulate, if not better the finest European wines, adopted the use of new oak. But Californian fruit was significantly riper than European fruit at that time. So the new oak flavours were much more apparent. And the "New World" taste for new oak was born. Oak became a flavour component rather than a tannin management tool.
Of course nowadays everyone has ripe tannins so from that point of view, new oak is (mostly) unnecessary. But I still feel that it can contribute to refining tannins.
May I plug my own wine at this point? I make Albariño in Rias Baixas. I believe that Albariño is quite tannic (for a white). I'm finding 500L oak (coopered from 4-5 year old staves) is perfect for softening the tannins although the wine needs blending with some tank fermented wine for brightness and aromatics. But in 2023, I could not source any suitable tank fermented wines and our cuvée ended up being 90% barrel fermented, half in new oak, half in 3rd fill. In theory, it should be like everything that I detest in a caricature new world oaky white. But actually, it's rather lovely, like the Champagnes you're writing about. I'm most relieved that producing an obviously oaky wine nowadays will not result in ostracism. Thank you.
Tannins are increasingly a factor in Champagne, and it does seem people are using oak quite successfully to manage quite tannic, extract rich years like 2015. It's counter intuitive, but there's certainly a way in which oak helps bring elegance in hot years!
🤔 That is, as you say, counter intuitive. But I guess if the grapes are exposed to more sun (less precipitation, less vegetation?), they're becoming more phenolicy and the new oak can round that out?
You're definitely on to something. I was at a tasting the other day and one well known writer dismissed one of the wines as too osky, and I thought he sounded very dad trying to be cool.
Only one day before your post I wrote, "[...] but not as overspiced nor too woody as some champagnes I had lately."
When I had the Carré Frères for the first time a bit over a year ago, I said to my friends that "I don't understand this champagne". I definitely will try again as soon as I get the chance.
Cheers
the punk who wore white socks when they were ridiculed - so about 40y before they became fashionable (again?)
For me I tend to find what I think of as 'woody' as being a product of small barrels, maybe second/third fill, maybe fairly open with some oxidative development, and not especailly white burgundy-like. But that's probably semantics. The Carré wines for me are more protectively made, even reductive, with more of the floral/sweet-spice profile of young oak - more in the modern-still-Chardonnay aromatic range. I think they have the 'front' really interesting now. If they can heighten the back end then it will go up another notch....
I tend to think of (new) oak as a tool for transforming tannins. The greener the tannins, the more transformative the effect of the new oak (within reason of course. Aromatics and fruit flavours are also necessary). In the old days, say pre 1980, when many European vigneron struggled to have ripe fruit AND ripe tannins, new oak barrels went a long way towards compensating for the green tannins. But barrels were, and are still, expensive so they were reserved for their best wines.
Robert Mondavi while trying to emulate, if not better the finest European wines, adopted the use of new oak. But Californian fruit was significantly riper than European fruit at that time. So the new oak flavours were much more apparent. And the "New World" taste for new oak was born. Oak became a flavour component rather than a tannin management tool.
Of course nowadays everyone has ripe tannins so from that point of view, new oak is (mostly) unnecessary. But I still feel that it can contribute to refining tannins.
May I plug my own wine at this point? I make Albariño in Rias Baixas. I believe that Albariño is quite tannic (for a white). I'm finding 500L oak (coopered from 4-5 year old staves) is perfect for softening the tannins although the wine needs blending with some tank fermented wine for brightness and aromatics. But in 2023, I could not source any suitable tank fermented wines and our cuvée ended up being 90% barrel fermented, half in new oak, half in 3rd fill. In theory, it should be like everything that I detest in a caricature new world oaky white. But actually, it's rather lovely, like the Champagnes you're writing about. I'm most relieved that producing an obviously oaky wine nowadays will not result in ostracism. Thank you.
Tannins are increasingly a factor in Champagne, and it does seem people are using oak quite successfully to manage quite tannic, extract rich years like 2015. It's counter intuitive, but there's certainly a way in which oak helps bring elegance in hot years!
🤔 That is, as you say, counter intuitive. But I guess if the grapes are exposed to more sun (less precipitation, less vegetation?), they're becoming more phenolicy and the new oak can round that out?
That is indeed how it has been described to me yes.
You know they have a secret Oaky Wine fridge, which they open when nobody's looking.
Interesting piece
You're definitely on to something. I was at a tasting the other day and one well known writer dismissed one of the wines as too osky, and I thought he sounded very dad trying to be cool.